Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Ezra Klein argues that the left desperately needs a unifying project — for its own survival and for the sake of the country. In this episode of Ross Douthat’s “Interesting Times,” Ross and Ezra assess the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and debate whether the left has taken a dark turn. 00:25 How liberalism became “uncertain and exhausted”08:37 The void in the Democratic Party12:21 Does progressive despair lead to radicalism?15:04 “Violence is contagious"19:24 Can the left be more malleable?28:20 The hippies, Peter Thiel and technology32:11 Does the American left need cosmic hope?41:59 A vision of the “good life”Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

In moments of political shock and horror, where can we turn? Ross was supposed to interview Charlie Kirk next month for the show and now offers his reflections on Kirk, his political movement and his assassination. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is the United States still a worthy opponent for China? In this episode, Ross Douthat talks to Dan Wang, the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future,” about the alarming speed at which China is able to build and could blow America out of the water. 01:44 - “A life full of ease and beauty”05:30 - Rule by engineers11:00 - China’s Technological Mastery16:04 - Is autocracy driving innovation?25:00 - What are the real stakes of the competition?35:47 - How could China fail? 53:00 - Advice for America(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

While “Interesting Times” is on vacation, we’re sharing a conversation from “The Opinions” between Meher Ahmad, an editor for Times Opinion, and the Opinion writer Jessica Grose. They talk about the aesthetics of MAGA women — think Kristi Noem and Nancy Mace — and what they signal about femininity and power within the Republican Party. Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

This week, we’re sharing a great conversation Ross had on “The Ezra Klein Show” this past spring. Ezra asks Ross about his most recent book, “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” But along the way, they debate not just how religion influences the Trump administration but also their own lives. Come for their seeking and stay for their thoughts on ayahuasca and mystical encounters. 02:39 - Trump: man of destiny?19:55 - Political power, cruelty and Godliness36:13 - Religion and spirituality in the modern world42:53 - The mysteries of the universe…48:38 - Aliens! Fairies! (and some Catholic history)56:51 - Contending with uncertainty and evil1:05:24 - Psychedelic experiences1:20:56 - Official knowledge1:38:58 - Book recommendationsThoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

For Democrats, President Trump’s victories have revealed the antidemocratic flaws at the core of our government. But could it be an opening for a constitutional revolution as the party searches for its next leader? This week, Ross explores what that revolution would entail with Osita Nwanevu, the author of the book, “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding.”3:46 - What's wrong with our democracy? 9:07 - Our undemocratic founding 17:00 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution23:52 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 29:26 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?37:17 - What Trump’s presidency says about democracy40:30 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 46:29 - The mystical element of our politics Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Would you use an algorithm to select your embryos? Enter Orchid, a company that promises parents the ability to protect their future children through genetic testing for embryos before pregnancy. The founder, Noor Siddiqui, and Ross debate the scientific, moral and ethical implications of designing a “healthy” child and what we lose in separating reproduction from sex. 01:27 - Orchid’s vision04:59- The process and benefits17:20 - Noor explains why Orchid was developed22:00- Criticism and skepticism around genetic screening36:21 - Does IVF need to change?44:00 - “The moral status of the embryo”53:36 - How does this technology change us?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Does America have a moral obligation to the world? The former Department of Government Efficiency staffer Jeremy Lewin, now deputy administrator for the United States Agency for International Development, explains how he is implementing President Trump’s foreign aid philosophy and what it means for humanitarian assistance going forward. 01:59 - From the private sector to interviewing with Elon Musk09:18 - The rapid restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.19:44 - Lewin’s critiques of U.S.A.I.D.’s focus25:15 - The most controversial cuts: humanitarian aid 29:50 - America’s interests first, values-based interests second40:14 - What is the future vision for foreign aid?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy. 01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”45:38 - Disclosure52:51 - “Amazing.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Julie K. Brown thinks Jeffrey Epstein didn’t act alone. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Brown, the investigative reporter whose work ultimately led to Epstein’s re-arrest, about what the government could release that it hasn’t and how the story is bigger than Epstein. 2:32 - Brown's initial interest in the Epstein case5:26 - Discovering Epstein's crimes and the plea deal13:13 - Epstein's victims and the impact of Brown's reporting18:20 - Epstein's wealth and connections25:20 - Epstein's social circles35:01 - Certainty and unsolved mysteries45:25 - The role of government in the case51:04 - Trump and the political fallout(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The conservative Christian podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey joins Ross on “Interesting Times” this week to explain why “toxic empathy” has a stranglehold on politics, whether evangelical Christians have a red line President Trump could cross and why her commentary has echoes of Phyllis Schlafly. 01:26 “The New Phyllis Schlafly”9:46 Untangling the web of Evangelical Protestants15:50 Female authority in the church22:12 What is “toxic empathy”?30:55 Toxic empathy and cruelty in American politics40:19 Do conservative christians have a red line?57:24 “The mushy middle”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

How has the war in Gaza reverberated throughout American politics? Opinion columnist Bret Stephens and Ross Douthat debate the implications of the Israel-Gaza conflict on antisemitism, the morality of war, and why “Monday morning quarterbacking” is not productive when taking stock of military actions in the Middle East. 01:56 Israel actions in Gaza04:39 The moral baseline13:31 What is the end game?15:52 The role of Israel in American politics23:44 Can you criticize Israel without becoming antisemetic? 36:05 Does Israel have obligations to the Jewish diaspora?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Happy Independence Day! We’ll be back next week with a new episode, but today we’re sharing the episode that started us on the path to “Interesting Times.” Ross Douthat talks to Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Together they wrote the book “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream.” They review their George W. Bush-era prescriptions for the Republican Party to reclaim the working-class vote and the ways they were right (and wrong) about building a new Republican majority. 03:47 George W. Bush era12:06 Rise and fall of the Tea Party18:19 Trump’s 2016 “blood and guts” message28:11 Trump’s effect on the right and left35:48 Trump’s first term economic agenda39:30 Elon Musk vs JD Vance46:50 Imagining an activist, conservative government(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The billionaire Peter Thiel is unimpressed with our pace of innovation. In this episode, he critiques artificial intelligence, longevity science and space travel — and warns that our lack of progress could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the emergence of the Antichrist. 01:19 - What does stagnation mean in 2025?06:30 - Peter Thiel's case for more progress and innovation11:30 - Does taking more scientific risk include life extension?15:14 - Peter Thiel's political history18:34 - Did Trump live up to Thiel's expectations?25:10 - Does Elon Musk still want to go to Mars?28:09 - How Thiel defines A.I.33:20 - Is A.I. Too Modest An Ambition?35:23 - How will the human race evolve? Should it?41:53 - Thiel's critique of Silicon Valley43:40 - Who is the real Antichrist?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is the key to freedom a life without Amazon? This week, Ross talks to Lina Khan, former Chair of the Federal Trade Commission about how unchecked corporate power has limited choice in our day-to-day lives, and how her fight against Big Tech unites left and right. 02:41 - What’s wrong with big business?09:27 - The political costs of corporate consolidation11:39 - How the 2008 financial crisis shaped Lina Khan's philosophy17:49 - The antitrust consensus from Reagan to Obama21:54 - How the left and right align against big business 26:12 - Khan's wins and losses at the FTC 36:53 - Is the Trump administration embracing or rejecting Khan's vision?42:32 - Is anti-monopoly policy the solution to our economic problems?48:38 - Can Big Tech be broken up?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Has immigration become the new litmus test for the Republican Party? In this episode, Ross talks to Matthew Continetti, the author of “The Right: The Hundred-Year War for American Conservatism,” about the party’s shifting coalition, the defining role of immigration and how today’s right echoes its past. 01:50 - What the Elon experiment (and fallout) tells us about the Republican Party06:55 - Is there a tech right beyond DOGE?10:09 - Is the “new right” really all that new?18:16 - Where Trump’s agenda fits within the larger conservative story25:16 - “Immigration is the biggest issue of our time”28:39 - How border control will define conservatism around the world34:05 - Is Silicon Valley out of step with Trump's immigration crackdown?39:43 - Will Trump's ideas outlast Trump?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Does Hollywood have anything interesting left to say? In a world where franchises dominate and grown-up movies have fallen by the wayside, Ross talks to the showrunner Tony Gilroy, whose “Star Wars” spinoff “Andor” has, according to Ross, succeeded in being both original and smartly political in a Hollywood that is often neither. 03:04 - The political world of ”Andor”08:36 - Tony Gilroy's syllabus for “Andor”10:40 - Is “Andor” a left-wing show?17:07 - What makes Hollywood progressive or liberal?24:22 - Debating the politics of “Michael Clayton”29:42 - Why aren't there more movies for grown-ups?32:56 - “There are no movie stars anymore.”35:55 - How A.I. changing the movie business39:28 - Tony Gilroy's advice for future filmmakers(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

What would make you want to have more children? This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat speaks with Dr. Alice Evans, a social scientist who is as concerned about the global decline in fertility as he is. The two discuss why this isn’t just a gender issue — it’s “a solitude issue” – and whether there’s a way to bring relationships back. 02:03 - What are the stakes of declining fertility?06:41 - Alice's master theory for why birth rates are falling09:04 - There are too many single people10:27 - We can thank technology for the coupling crisis12:58 - The digital segregation of men and women16:31 - Men have less to offer these days20:11 - What can bring the sexes back together24:31 - Could Hollywood help fix the problem?25:46 - Can the government incentivize people to have babies?27:30 - What role does religion play in all this?28:59 - The role of IVF40:50 - Does the fantasy of youth impact the numbers?43:43 - The world in 2080...(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat interviews Vice President JD Vance about the Trump administration’s deportations, the tariff backlash and how Vance’s faith influences his politics. 01:49 - How faith shapes JD Vance’s politics04:26 - ‘Papal interventions in politics’14:44 - How will the Trump administration measure success on immigration?21:22 - ‘The courts are trying to overturn the will of the American people’23:55 - Are migrants really at war against the US?28:48 - The parallels between the War on Terror and Trump's deportation policies40:29 - What does a successful trade policy look like?48:10 - The "big, beautiful bill"58:57 - Does the Trump administration expect the AI revolution will take jobs?54:05 - What worries Vance about AI58:33 - JD Vance's message to shocked Trump voters(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is artificial intelligence about to take your job? According to Daniel Kokotajlo, the executive director of the A.I. Futures Project, that should be the least of your worries. Kokotajlo was once a researcher for OpenAI, but left after losing confidence in the company’s commitment to A.I. safety. This week, he joins Ross to talk about “AI 2027,” a series of predictions and warnings about the risks A.I. poses to humanity in the coming years, from radically transforming the economy to developing armies of robots. 03:59 - What effect could AI have on jobs?06:45 - But wait, how does this make society richer?10:08 - Robot plumbers and electricians14:53 - The geopolitical stakes18:58 - AI’s honesty problem22:43 - The fork in the road27:55 - The best case scenario29:38 - The power structure in an AI-dominated world32:32 - What AI leaders think about this power structure38:30 - AI's hallucinations and limitations43:45 - Theories of AI consciousness47:05 - Is AI consciousness inevitable?50:59 - Humanity in an AI-dominated world(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Democrats are stumbling — badly. While the Trump administration redefines the limits of executive overreach, the Democratic party remains at odds over how to — even whether to — respond. But Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut has a plan for beating Republicans in 2026, and it involves taking a cue from President Trump. He shares it with Ross Douthat on this episode of Interesting Times. 02:07 - The First 100 Days for Trump and the Democrats04:06 - The Threat to Democracy Wasn’t Enough Then or Now.06:49 - How Dems Fight Trump13:41 - Where Chris Murphy Can Agree With the Populist Right16:38 - Is Connecticut a Model of What is Wrong with Democrats?25:54 - The Spiritual Crisis in American Life27:56 - The Problem with Big Tech33:45 - How Do Democrats (And Murphy) Talk About Religion? Should They?45:35 - Is Trump Really Running An Oligarchy?50:34 - Does the Democratic Party Need a Bigger Tent?53:54 - A Need for a National Consensus on Immigration57:09 - “A Democracy Dies Without a High Stakes Confrontation”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The Trump era is ushering in a new age of right wing counterculture, one defined by masculinity and transgression. In this episode of Interesting Times, Ross speaks with Jonathan Keeperman, the founder of Passage Press, about the influence of an edgy, reactionary, right-wing “vibe shift” on American politics and culture. 2:09 - Jonathan Keeperman’s Lomez days5:25 - 2014: An inflection point in American culture?7:40 - The emergence of a “conservative counter elite”9:41 - The creation of a right wing counterweight to the dominant left12:32 - What makes something “conservative art”?15:18 - Are David Lynch films right wing art? Is Girls?18:11 - Is there such a thing as good left wing art?19:32 - Right wing counterculture’s obsession with “vitalism”22:56 - Longhouse culture: Is the “over feminization” of society making America weaker?27:55 - Is the longhouse argument just a “long male whine”?30:41 - Is right wing counterculture anti-Christian?35:48 - Trump as mythic hero43:31 - What is the function of racism in right wing counterculture?53:50 - Are racist means transgressive or just racist?1:05:43 - Will the rightward vibe shift show up in pop culture?1:07:37 - Why every high school senior should read “Moby Dick” and watch “No Country for Old Men”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat is joined by the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and an editor of America Magazine, to reflect on the legacy of Pope Francis and the challenges facing the next papacy. 02:20 The First Jesuit Pope05:23 Google Translate and Exchanging Emails 06:05 The Visual Element of Francis’s Legacy07:48 The Concrete Changes Made16:19 Christian Sexual Ethics25:22 The Church in the Modern World27:14 What Kind of Leader Will the Next Pope Be?31:57 The Latin Mass Controversy34:54 What Draws People to Christianity?39:21 What Holds Such a Diverse Church Together?43:09 The Influence of the Pope and the Hierarchy 46:41 A Renewed Interest in Religion 48:30 The Church as a Field Hospital 49:13 What Father Martin Hopes to See in the Next Pope 49:59 Where Should the New Pope Go? 52:27 Who Will Be the Next Pope?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

President Trump may forever reshape the boundaries of executive power. This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross and Jack Goldsmith, who was the head of the White House’s Office of Legal Counsel under President George W. Bush, discuss which cases are most likely to win in the courts and permanently expand the executive branch — for better or worse. 00:02:03 Donald Trump’s “moonshot on executive power”00:04:16 What has surprised Goldsmith the most00:06:57 Are we in a constitutional crisis?00:08:59 Alien Enemies Act00:14:02 The case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia00:25:23 Godel’s loophole and Supreme Court enforcement30:10 Trump’s firings of federal employees and restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.36:11 Trump’s power over congressionally appropriated funding41:29 Obama v. Trump’s discretion on enforcing laws passed by Congress43:03 The TikTok case45:46 Lawsuit over Trump’s tariffs51:57 How the Supreme Court (maybe) thinks about picking its battles54:24 Worst case scenarios56:59 What the Supreme Court can do if the Trump administration does not comply01:01:32 What a Trump executive power revolution could look like in 2028 and beyond01:04:39 If Democrats win in 2028, what happens?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is the short-term economic pain of President Trump’s unpredictable approach to tariffs a reasonable price to pay for a more resilient America? Mr. Trump appears to think so, and so does Oren Cass — sort of. On the first episode of “Interesting Times,” the founder and chief economist of the think tank American Compass joins Ross Douthat to discuss and debate the Trump administration’s drastic trade war. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

There’s a saying that comes to mind these days: May you live in interesting times. It’s understood to be a curse, even though it sounds like a blessing. “Interesting Times With Ross Douthat” is a new weekly podcast from New York Times Opinion. Every Thursday, he will map the new world order through interviews and conversations. Answering questions like: What does our new political era really look like? What is the future of democracy around the world, with American empire in retreat? What happens to movies and books — all of culture — in our digital and A.I.-dominated age? Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The tech investor Marc Andreessen and his fellow Silicon Valley giant Elon Musk weren’t always the Donald Trump supporters they are today. In this episode, Ross asks Andreessen, a founder of the venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, about what led to Silicon Valley’s rightward shift and the new agenda of the tech-right faction. Editors’ note: This episode originally aired on the “Matter of Opinion” podcast on Jan. 17, 2025. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

In this conversation, Ross talks to Steve Bannon, the chief strategist from Donald Trump’s first term and part of the original MAGA movement. Despite his clashes with new factions emerging in the Republican Party, Bannon argues that Trump is still central to advancing a populist agenda. Editors’ note: This episode originally aired on the “Matter of Opinion” podcast on Jan. 31, 2025. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.