Vor 2 Tagen • 1 Std. 12 Min.

Before he founded Render, Anurag Goel was the fifth engineer at Stripe, where he watched roughly a fifth of the engineering team disappear into managing AWS, writing brittle, repetitive, error-prone infrastructure scripts that had nothing to do with the actual product. That experience became the seed for Render: a platform that automates away the undifferentiated DevOps work and lets application teams ship without standing up their own cloud team. Today, millions of developers build on it, and Render has raised over $260M from Bessemer and General Catalyst. In this episode, Tobi and Anurag get into what's actually changing as AI moves from hype to production. Anurag makes the case that agents are simply a new kind of application, long-running, stateful, tool-heavy, and a new kind of end user you have to design for. He explains why Render deliberately refuses the "AI cloud" label, what he's building with Workflows and sandboxes, and why the hardest part of shipping agents isn't building them but seeing inside them. The conversation also goes wide: how to hire executives when interviews lie, why short-lived keys and blast-radius thinking matter more than container escapes, how distribution is shifting from SEO to getting ChatGPT and Claude to recommend you, and why, despite all the "SaaS is dead" noise, specialization isn't going anywhere. Topics covered: Why ~20% of Stripe's engineers were stuck managing AWS and how that became Render "We're not the AI cloud, we're the application cloud," and why the distinction matters Agents, as a new type of application (and a new end user), you have to build for Render Workflows and sandboxes: the consolidated AI runtime Hiring executives when interviews are an imperfect signal Security as blast-radius management: short-lived keys over "admin forever" The shift from SEO to GEO, getting chatbots to recommend your product Why SaaS isn't dying, and specialization still wins