10.09.2026 • 43 Min.

President Trump made more than $2 billion last year — far exceeding his presidential salary of $400,000. His growing fortunes are raising questions about his allegiance to investors, particularly foreign ones, as he makes policy decisions and shapes the direction of the country. The contributing Opinion writer Christopher Caldwell and the Harvard law professor Jack Goldsmith discuss how the president has amassed this fortune, whether it’s legal and if the United States is becoming a kleptocracy. Note: As we work on relaunching 'Interesting Times,' the show will feature a series of guest hosts in the coming months. 00:00 Why Trump’s Wealth Is Unusual01:30 Presidential Ethics Before Trump02:28 Trump’s Crypto and Foreign Money Flows06:12 Is It a Kleptocracy?07:36 What’s Unconstitutional About Trump’s Finances10:43 The U.A.E. and Trump’s Foreign Policy13:41 How Trump’s Weaponization Is Changing Government16:42 What Congress Could Do18:59 The Tit for Tat Weaponization24:13 Can Trump Pardon Himself?26:57 The “Deep-State” Crackdown36:59 Oversight Norms and Voter Verdict42:46 Closing Thoughts (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.