14.11.2023 • 34 Min.

To much of the outside world, Hamas’s decision to murder hundreds of Israelis and trigger a war that has since killed many thousands of its own people looks like a historic miscalculation — one that could soon result in the destruction of Hamas itself. Hamas’s leaders, however, say that it was the result of a deliberate calculation. Ben Hubbard, the Istanbul bureau chief for The New York Times, has been reporting on their decision, and what went into it. Guest: Ben Hubbard, the Istanbul bureau chief for The New York Times. Background reading: Behind Hamas’s bloody gambit to create a “permanent” state of war.It took American and Qatari diplomacy, and self-interested decisions by Hamas, to bring two hostages safely back to Israel.Here’s the latest on the war.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.